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909 vs. ADM

 
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maky357



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: 909 vs. ADM Reply with quote

Hi there. First of all take my apology for bad english Smile Also i wanna say that i have hard time to say what i want so my explanation can be hard sometimes so take my apology on that too.
I am owner of real 909. Though my hi tom stopped to work lately and i am looking for some software solution. So i was looking for adm for some time. After newest update, things started to sound better. I like toms now but however few things in adm are pretty unclear to me and i wont buy it until it grow even better.

I was doing some comparison of 909 vs adm demo and of course i can expect adm to be 100% same but at least samples could be same. What i mean is this. IMO cymbals should be same since they are samples. I dont know maybe this is due copyright (roland famous lawyers), maybe this is demo limitation so someone will reveal this...

For example (i have alot of other questions but i wll stick to cymbals right now) Closed Hat is way strange compared to real thing. On small decay it is sounding right. It can "shizzle" like real thing. But when you turn decay to 100% CH is very very different. At the end of volume envelope sound is somehow distorted. Like some decimator effect or something. It is not same at all. I can post a-b examples but i thing it is not necessary.

You have some flash based 909 emulation here (it is only emulation in flash so this is not advert or something):
http://lab.andre-michelle.com/fl-909
and in listening this guy nailed it better then adm. Though even this is not perfect but it is way better on full decay then on adm. I was thinking that sample is sample and should be same ot at least 90% sameish. Maybe you compressed it too much or something? In short your CH should not be replaced but something is very wrong at the end of sample.

Also what is story with clap sound? Ok this is analog modelling but your is totally different. My unit is not broken as i tested this at friend studio also and i got same result. Clap sound is way more different. I know, there is possibility that you have some other build series unit but sound should not be so strange. Some other product claiming to be 909 emulation (i wont advert it here) nailed it better, this flash emulation also nailed it better (but not good) more close to original. Though i do not understand all controls in adm so this difference could be in that. I saw something about reverb on clap in manual but i have some troubles tofind that. Maybe i missed something. ?

I could speak a lot more but for now this is all.

I am expecting some answers from staff. Please do not take this as harm or whining. This is constructive critique or something.

Regards!
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audiorealism
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 3882

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi maky357,

André's flash 909 is totally sample based for all the sounds except the snare. Many of the sounds on the 909 can be reproduced well via sampling.

While it might be interesting to discuss details about ADM's emulated sounds vs the real thing you have to realize that the goal of ADM is not to sound exactly like its hardware predecessor, but to capture the essence of the machines. Everyone has their own idea what these machines should sound like and its very difficult to make it sound like every single user is expect. If we were to make a sampled snapshot of the 909 then some users would be very happy and say it sounds 100% authentic while another user would comment on its rigidity. That said things can always be improved and the 909 clap was changed on several occasions. The 1.1.0 update that was just released was not focused on changing any of the generators (except the toms) but to improve the usability and stability of ADM. I personally think that ADM does do a good job at capturing the essence, in that way that it is dynamic in a similar way to the original machines. I think its a good thing that different companies take different routes in trying to achieve the same goals and it ultimately comes down to the taste of the user which product he picks up.

Best regards,

Mike
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maky357



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. Thnaks for answering. Of course i was not thinking to go in drawback route so i like that "extra" things which adm does add. Also i am aware that flash emulation is sample based and that you can do just sampled emulation. I am also aware of fact that VA emulation is alot better then sample mangling.

I was refering to thing about sampled sound. I mean we all know what sounds from 909 are sample based (Open/Closed HiHat, Crash/Ride Cymbal). You or i or someone else can not have various idea/opinions on how will closed hat from 909 sound since it is sample based. It is sounding same every time on every unit(if unit is not broken).

That is why i was expecting adm 909 ch to sound same. You only have to capture sample and that is all. Envelope shaping can be added later via software which is case right now as is. I understand if you decided just "be very similar" but not same route. However that original 909 CH sample is not classic without a reason. But anyway i like when developer want to make something new and unique, however why you decided to put very distorted ch i can not understand. You can at least remove that so it will be more 909 like. That is just advice. I am not claiming anything, what is better what is not. Also i wish you everything best in future work.

You probably wont change it and that is probably reason why you put "sample" support. One neat feature would be if we could load sample to adm channel slot like we can do now and via adm decay control we could mangle decay (this is sounding like bad typing but i dont know better, hopefully you will understand that)

Regards!

edit: found i can manage samples in small percent with adm envelope controls Smile great! Why not full control?
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Loki000



Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also what is story with clap sound? Ok this is analog modelling but your is totally different. My unit is not broken as i tested this at friend studio also and i got same result. Clap sound is way more different. I know, there is possibility that you have some other build series unit but sound should not be so strange. Some other product claiming to be 909 emulation (i wont advert it here) nailed it better, this flash emulation also nailed it better (but not good) more close to original. Though i do not understand all controls in adm so this difference could be in that. I saw something about reverb on clap in manual but i have some troubles tofind that. Maybe i missed something. ?
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