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Sample rate issue
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Sample rate issue Reply with quote

I'm sure we covered this in the past, but I forgot the solution.

How do I change the sample rate in ABL Pro?
It only seems to work at 44.1, anything above that will sound high pitched.

ADM and ABL2 seem to follow sample rate changes. ABL Pro doesn't.
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audiorealism
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 3882

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What version of ABLPro are you using?
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Sjoerd
ABL:er


Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 656
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add ADM to the 'doesn't' (properly) list please. The cut-off changes (you can easily notice with rez up) so stuff has to be readjusted when you change sample rate to sound the same (musically). It almost completely keeps me from changing the frequency on a project once it's started, because it's simple too tedious to do so manually. Not the biggest of deals to be sure, but I'd like to work at low sample rate to save CPU, and then render output of finalized projects in highest available rate (then sample down only at end of process) without ADM sounding way off.
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audiorealism
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The PCF filter might need a bugfix in regards to samplerate, the rest of the generators should be samplerate independant..
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the retail version of ASM.
From the links you recently sent me.
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Paradigm X



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjoerd wrote:
I'd like to work at low sample rate to save CPU, and then render output of finalized projects in highest available rate (then sample down only at end of process) without ADM sounding way off.


generally speaking, thats a great idea ! never thought of that.

Very Happy
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any word on the solution? Do I need a newer version then the retail download?
Is it some option I forgot to set?
I'm trying to use it at 96k 24bit. Because thats the resolution we're going with for our future sampling projects.
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rhythminmind



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
Location: los angeles

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paradigm X wrote:
Sjoerd wrote:
I'd like to work at low sample rate to save CPU, and then render output of finalized projects in highest available rate (then sample down only at end of process) without ADM sounding way off.


generally speaking, thats a great idea ! never thought of that.

Very Happy


Working at a higher samplerate dosen't usually cause higher CPU only higher CPU @ the same buffer setting..

Let me give out some bogus numbers to explain.

lets say with you running at
48000 with your buffer set to 256 = a latency of 10ms = 40% CPU
now at
96000 with your buffer set to 256 = a latency of 5ms = 80% CPU
but usually if you set your buffers higher to compensate you can work fine
96000 with your buffer set to 512 = a latency of 10ms = 40% CPU

But thats the general idea..
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Paradigm X



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks man!

I see.

But is there ant advantage to suing ABL2 and ADM (not got asm (yet. Smile) at higher sample rates? (aimed at mike as well)

Ive been reading a lot that synths generally sound better at higher rates, less aliasing

but some people use internal upsampling so it doesnt matter?

It confuses me a lot

Cheers
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audiorealism
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We try to target 44.1kHz as sample rate as its still the standard for most people. All products work optimally at 44.1kHz, but the idea is that they should scale up to other sample rates without any change in sound. However there will not be any increase in quality by using higher sample rates - everything is already bandlimited and designed for low aliasing at 44.1.
--Mike
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Sjoerd
ABL:er


Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 656
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@rhythminmind: you're right, thx for the added nuance.

The point I raised was more about user convenience and workflow than technical sound quality (and not complaining about these plugs' sound quality in any way!). I just like to be able to change a general sample rate setting in my hosts (i.e. for entire projects) and having an otherwise consistent sound, without having to adjust/calibrate other settings (like latency/buffer size), especially when you have to do so in other places, , such as in some individual VST(i)'s settings. Man ABL/ADM even rock - oldschool hardcore style - at 6 bits, 11 kHz output... Wink

And as a general remark, for getting better sound quality in the digital domain, increasing the bit-depth (i.e. instead of using 16 bits, use 24, 32, etc.) is typically much more worthwhile than increasing bitrate (i.e. from 44.1kHz to 48, 96 etc.). This is especially important for post-processing, like adding VST effects, and/or for audio that has (parts with) a (very) low volume.

@Mike: to be sure: your plugs _do_ take advantage of higher bitdepths, right?

Also remember theory vs. practice: in the end all that matters is what your ears tell you. I tend to trust listening tests over theoretical comparisons of technical details. Even if that may include some placebo effects... (hey doesn't ABL really sound better to you with a 303 skin on top?) Smile

/S

PS: @Paradigm X: "advantage to suing ABL2 and ADM [...] (aimed at mike as well)": don't even THINK of suing Mike!! Bad, bad karma!! Wink
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audiorealism
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 3882

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjoerd wrote:

@Mike: to be sure: your plugs _do_ take advantage of higher bitdepths, right?


All plugs use floating point calculations internally and this is also what gets output to the host..
[/code]
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Paradigm X



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
We try to target 44.1kHz as sample rate as its still the standard for most people. All products work optimally at 44.1kHz, but the idea is that they should scale up to other sample rates without any change in sound. However there will not be any increase in quality by using higher sample rates - everything is already bandlimited and designed for low aliasing at 44.1.
--Mike


Cool man, cheers for explaining.

Not a dig, think they all sound fantastic. ABL2 is just the best synth ive ever bought, it just sounds so perfectly like all the thousands of great records... Also just discovered the WAV analyser, didnt realise that existed ! Keep finding new things. Should read TFM properly. But its so easy to use and sounds so gorgeous i just get lost (in the silver box).

Just something ive been reading about recently and didnt understand.

From what Ive learned tho, other synths with less good design would sound better at higher SRs, yeah ?

I actually did some tests, bouncing a loop at 44k and 96k, with ABL and Rob Papens Albino, at 44k and 96k. They both sounded different, far more so than i thought, i was only expecting a marginal difference. As you say, ABL did sound better at 44. The albino sounded better at 96k... Smile hence my confusion. Cheers for clearing it up.

Cheers
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Paradigm X



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also appreciate the irony of using worrying about 24 bit 44/96k to recreate a 26 year old budget mono synth Wink Very Happy
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Paradigm X



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive come across this;

http://chris.r.walton.googlepages.com/oversampler

Which ive yet to try. Oversamples VSTi's / plugins, so you can (in theory) run at 44k, but run various sytnhs etc at 88 (or 48/96)

Sounds like a perfect solution, or workaround, for now. Run at 44k for optimal ABL sound, but get whatever else you like running at double that.

As i said ive not tried it but it looks interesting, ill give it a whirl this weekend.

Cheers

Ben
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