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ABL patterns above 16 steps stop/lose sync when GUI closed
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:12 pm    Post subject: ABL patterns above 16 steps stop/lose sync when GUI closed Reply with quote

In Live 5.0.3, with patterns greater than 16 steps, Bassline VST fails to play as soon as the GUI is closed. I have it set to sync with host and triggering patterns from midi clips. For a 64 step pattern, I have the midi note in the midi clip holding for the whole duration of the 4 bars of the clip which I assume is the best way to do it.

So just to be clear...I drag Bassline VST onto a midi track. The GUI opens automatically (of course). I make some midi clips corresponding to each pattern. I program in a few patterns and trigger a midi clip as the bass line beat chugs along indefinately with the notes sounding at the proper place in the bar the way I programmed them. I leave it running, not touching anything else. Then I close the GUI by clicking on the red dot in the upper left corner. The pattern stops. When I reopen the GUI (without touching anything else), the patterns magically start again.

If I hit Command+P to hide the GUI, the pattern is perfectly in time, no problem there. Only by closing the GUI does the sound stop. I can't seem to duplicate the problem yet with a 16 step pattern. Seems to work OK with those.

...Strangely I'm getting the same thing with another VST plugin now which is also curiously step sequencer based. Microtonic VST also stops playing when I close it's GUI. Open the GUI again and ta-da (!)...working perfectly again. Command+P to hide GUI and Microtonic also continues to run fine just like a 64 step pattern in Bassline does when GUI is open.

Here's another test. If I make a clip that triggers a 64 or 48 step pattern for 3 bars and then trigger w/another 1 bar long midi note another 16 step pattern for the last bar they will both play fine. Here's the interesting part. When I close the GUI, the 64 step pattern portion of the loop is silent and the last measure of 16 step pattern plays back perfect. This seems to confirm to me that there is something broken with sync of patterns above 16 steps with the GUI closed.

I'm running Live 5.0.3 on 10.4.5. ABL VST 1.511. Powerbook 1.5ghz w/1.25G RAM.
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually a bug in Ableton's clip retriggering thingy-ma-jig..
Update to Live 5.2, it's fixed Very Happy
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh shoot! Rolling Eyes Smile

Thanks for the reply. I don't have an Intel-Mac though. Is 5.2 update also for Power PC?

Does this mean if I want this (& other bug fixes in 5.2) I have to pay if even if I don't need universal binary yet?

I know you get a credit towards Live 6 if you buy 5.2, so maybe I should just suck it up right? Wink
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I found out that there is a separate Live 5.2 free bugfix update for the non Intel-Mac users. Great.

I just updated to 5.2 and was all excited. But alas, exact same problem with ABL. Crying or Very sad
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audiorealism
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 3879

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will have to try to recreate this problem and fix when the MacIntel versions are released.
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you (or anyone else) recreate it? Should be easy to confirm right...

Just make a 64 step pattern, trigger it with a 4 bar midi clip and see if it stops when you close the GUI...
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
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Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not been able to reproduce it. But i think you're using an older version of ABL. The latest is 1.521.
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually nope, I updated to ABL 1.520 yesterday when I updated to Live 5.2 and still having the problem.

Hmm...not sure where you got 1.521. I even tried another fresh download today & both my AU & VST still say 1.520 when I click "about bassline".

Any way I can get a download of 1.521, see if it makes a difference? Is it a beta?
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icedsushi wrote:
Actually nope, I updated to ABL 1.520 yesterday when I updated to Live 5.2 and still having the problem.

Hmm...not sure where you got 1.521. I even tried another fresh download today & both my AU & VST still say 1.520 when I click "about bassline".

Any way I can get a download of 1.521, see if it makes a difference? Is it a beta?


Yeah, it's a beta http://www.audiorealism.se/Update_Info_151.htm
It doesn't list your problem as a fixed thing, but you never know.
I tried to reproduce this, but no luck.

Cheers
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for helping. I really appreciate that and also reading your helpful posts on the Ableton forum. I tried downloading at the link you provided which says 1.521 update at the top of the page, but my AU & VST still read 1.520 after running the installer, oh well.

If you have the time and are interested, here is a simple Live Set where 64 step ABL patterns stop when you close the GUI. Maybe if you have time/curiousity, you might be interested in loading the set quickly and playing the 2 midi clips, then close the GUI & see if it stops. If you are too busy to take a few minutes, I totally understand, no biggie.

I have Live 5.2 & ABL 1.520 now & still get the problem. Actually I've since tried a fresh set and programmed some new patterns and then I don't have the problem! I wish I didn't have to clear all my patterns and try to reprogram old songs, but maybe that's what I have to do and let it remain a mystery why it kept doing it with old patterns. Apparently even though I updated it's holding some old settings with the old patterns? Sheesh, go figure. Confused
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hoffman2k



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icedsushi wrote:
Thanks so much for helping. I really appreciate that and also reading your helpful posts on the Ableton forum. I tried downloading at the link you provided which says 1.521 update at the top of the page, but my AU & VST still read 1.520 after running the installer, oh well.

If you have the time and are interested, here is a simple Live Set where 64 step ABL patterns stop when you close the GUI. Maybe if you have time/curiousity, you might be interested in loading the set quickly and playing the 2 midi clips, then close the GUI & see if it stops. If you are too busy to take a few minutes, I totally understand, no biggie.

I have Live 5.2 & ABL 1.520 now & still get the problem. Actually I've since tried a fresh set and programmed some new patterns and then I don't have the problem! I wish I didn't have to clear all my patterns and try to reprogram old songs, but maybe that's what I have to do and let it remain a mystery why it kept doing it with old patterns. Apparently even though I updated it's holding some old settings with the old patterns? Sheesh, go figure. Confused


Dunno, Maybe Mike can shed some light on this version business...

I checked that Livefile you posted. Works fine overhere bro.
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I'm feeling crazy now. Thanks a lot for checking it out though.

It's working fine now except with that sequence I programmed! I went in with a fresh instance on another track, works fine closing the GUI after programming away whatever I want on it.

-but-

Then I programmed that same new instance in the exact same pattern step by step as the pattern I wanted for my song & it started doing it again!

Very weird. It doesn't like just those patterns. Surprised
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-ha!

Through lots of trial and error and working with it all freakin afternoon Wink, I think I finally figured it out. I think it's a bug.

A 64 step pattern is 4 groups of 16. You have to have at least one step active in each group of 16 steps in your pattern, for the playback to be "linked" together once the GUI is closed.

First of all, you always have to have at least note active in the first 16 steps or you get no sound at all when you close the GUI, no matter what is in the last 3 groups of 16.

Then, once you have at least one note in the first 16 steps it will be linked to the next 16 and play those back once the GUI is closed. Then you need at least one active note in the next group of 16, and so on...

If you leave any of the 4 groups of 16 empty (no active notes) in your 64 step pattern the following groups of 16 won't play back when the GUI is closed.

Not good for people like me who want to do sparse patterns and rhythmic stabs.

Now here's an exception. If you put an active note on the downbeat of beat one of any group of 16, most of the time it will play back that group.

You can test it yourself:

- drag Bassline VST onto a midi track
- set sync to host and 64 step pattern
- do an "all notes off" command in the ABL top right pattern menu
- put a "time mode" active note on step 18
- make a 4 bar midi clip that triggers pattern 0 and fire the clip, you should hear the note sound once every 4 bars
- close the GUI and you get no sound
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audiorealism
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 3879

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icedsushi,

I just had an idea what could be causing it. Can you please add this line to Config.ini for ABL:

Code:

ActiveClocks = 1000000


See if it solves your problem?
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icedsushi



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried adding "ActiveClocks = 1000000" on the bottom line below "MidiOutputDisable = 1" and saved the changes to Config.ini. Unfortunately, no it didn't solve the problem. I even tried loading a new instance of ABL after that just in case.

Thanks for the idea though. Wink

In the meantime I've been just playing 16 step patterns and triggering the "active" measures with a midi note to the pattern for that measure. This works flawlessly.

As long as I don't go above 16 step patterns and have a "blank" group of 16 in there somewhere, I'm OK when I close the GUI.
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